Speaker 1: 0:14

Welcome back to yet another episode of the World Through Zen Eyes podcast. I'm Jan Gansinian here with…. I'm Dr Ruben Lambert.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Pleasure seeing you, sir. Sir, good to see you one week older than the last episode yeah, that's, that doesn't take any effort. The older bit we want to be one week wiser, maybe yeah the older bit is just it all depends what you did in that time span, right, right, well, I've done some meditation, some chanting, some reflecting, and I've come up with some new and improved ideas that we're going to share with the audience today about reincarnation.

Speaker 1: 0:58

Okay.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Some of the ideas from last week have been recycled and repolished.

Speaker 1: 1:04

Very good they're becoming Fantastic from last week have been recycled and repolished and very good, they'll be coming fantastic. Yes, so this is a first for us, a two-part episode. Mm-hmm, this is reincarnation part two. No, this is reincarnation, reincarnated. Yes, again, here we are. We spoke last time about the reincarnation and the six realms and the most common interpretation of what reincarnation means, what it is. And to just kind, of circle back you mean to reincarnate back into the reincarnation episode about reincarnation?

Speaker 2: 1:57

that we were in the last backwards reincarnation. Well, at the end of the episode we all said I'll be back. And here we are again.

Speaker 1: 2:04

Right. But you know there's an interesting thing, because I'll tell you why. This will hopefully make sense to others, as it's just now made some sense to my own brain, which is a dangerous place to invite people into. Hope you are all sitting or buckled in or you have helmets, because down into the Myung-un's mind we go Not really so much.

Speaker 1: 2:30

I am talking about the two fan mail requests and they both have to do with karma. So let's see One said Lovely podcast. Today I have a suggestion. You mentioned karma. I am interested in finding out if we repeat our past karma for a reason. Are we aware that we are doing it? Also, is there any way that we can pay our karmic debt to become free of it? This is a question from Jane. We also have a question from Louise. Can we ever know our karma? How can we work it out without knowing? Can we ever know if we paid our karmic debt? Thank you, louise. And so interesting on the account that the…. And we'll certainly be doing an episode on, because these questions betray a certain, albeit very common, misunderstanding of the karma in a sense. So we have to absolutely do an episode or a few on that.

Speaker 1: 3:58

But I bring it up because this idea of repeating karma and so now we're talking about reincarnation and repeating karma is an interesting thing.

Speaker 1: 4:11

When we consider repeat, we consider this kind of going back right, that we are going back as if we were on a Ferris wheel, backwards moving right, and so we started at the bottom and then went around full circle and then we're back at the bottom again.

Speaker 1: 4:38

I'd like an imagery of us standing, not being in the cart of the Ferris wheel, but standing outside and the cart is in front of us, in our field of the Ferris wheel, but standing outside and the cart is in front of us in our field of vision, and off it goes, sort of disappears, and in that cart, let's say, you have your phantom of trauma or we focus so much on trauma, but it could be any joyous thing, whatever it is, let's call it a thing and so you're standing there and that thing begins to move and shortly it disappears right before us, this kind of field of vision, and it disappears.

Speaker 1: 5:21

But if you wait long enough, it comes back from the other side, in a sense disappears, but if you wait long enough, it comes back from the other side, in a sense. So this image of this kind of cyclical thing as not us being in it but us being an observer of it, right? So this imagery of the me reincarnating sort of being in that cart and coming around or me standing outside of the cart and something kind of reincarnating, so we could say reincarnation is the first and kind of repetition of karma being the second. And this image that you know, let's say that this wheel is turning clockwise so it goes off your field of vision, off the left, but when it re-enters it re-enters from the right, and so we have this idea of maybe this linear thing. So I've never seen this thing.

Speaker 2: 6:17

Oh wow, you think it's new. You think it's new, yes.

Speaker 2: 6:20

It's not, but so if I People think about that oftentimes too, like the idea of coincidences and deja vu and things like that, right, like people who I've encountered in my life.

Speaker 2: 6:32

Sometimes people encounter somebody and it's a new encounter which then, from the perspective of it being linear, right, it came out of the darkness in your periphery.

Speaker 2: 6:44

Now you encountered it and so your perception, based on where you stand, with limited insight, limited wisdom, you reflect on it and you say this is new, right. But from the greater perspective, when you look at it with the eyes of wisdom, with Zen eyes, and you look at this circularity and reincarnation principle, there's a common thing out there in the New Age, I think, movement, and of course we understand this from the Buddhist perspective is that we've encountered many people before, and when we talk about Buddhism, we have the concept of doban, and you've spoken in your pomons about the how many kop, which is eons, right, that if you've eaten in the same, if you've eaten food with somebody, that means you've lived several eons in the same household versus same village, right, and then things like that. So you have encountered certain individuals before. We're all traveling on this rock, and this is what I mean when I say that there are these common.

Speaker 1: 7:47

I'm gonna call them misunderstandings rock, and this is what I mean when I say that there is a, that there are these common.

Speaker 1: 7:49

you know, I'm going to call them misunderstandings and and um, this is not to scold anyone yet ha no but the idea is that they're misunderstanding, because we have to understand a little bit of a nuance to get really the the main gist of it, because they appear right. Like I said, there's a cyclical thing, right. So in the card, cyclical, out of the card, cyclical, ferris wheel, round and round we go and so it's very easy to either draw conclusions or kind of jump to a conclusion and so.

Speaker 1: 8:25

But back to the topic at hand. Even though they are intertwined, we meander as we do Reincarnation, rebirth For those of you who are having heart palpitations as I say the words reincarnation, because I have devoured too many intellectuals.

Speaker 1: 8:47

Okay no scolding, I promise. No, I don't do such things as promises. We have introduced, if you will, the concept of reincarnation as this usually thought of thing, that is to say, I live alive and I live to the end of it whenever that comes, and I live out of it and whoop, I go to something and I have now reincarnated, perhaps in another realm, in another realm of existence. We've talked about those, om MANI, padme HUM, the six realms of reincarnation, the destinations, if you will, and I don't recall, because a week ago was so long ago for me.

Speaker 1: 9:40

But we have to also understand, even in that major kind of reincarnation idea of what reincarnation is a person, namely someone reincarnated into human form, because they're not as clearly defined as we also imagine them to be, to be, and there is a. There's going to be overlap between these principles, because to really grasp it we would have to very clearly define the terms, namely what is the physical existence, what is our psychological existence, what is our spiritual existence, what is our emotional existence? You name it right. So there's going to be a little bit of room for overlap and things of that nature, but perhaps in other episodes we could do more nuance. The reason why I say that is because someone could be a human being, reincarnated as a human being. I think I know where you're going.

Speaker 2: 10:54

I've encountered many people of the kind that you're about to describe.

Speaker 1: 10:59

Yes, and so you have a human being and one could say I have reincarnated as a human being, and again, without defining terms. But let's just move on. There are people who are human beings and yet have the proclivity or at times it doesn't have to be that they're 24 hours a day doing the thing, and we'll get into that also but they can act. A person could be a human being and act frankly like an animal, governed and driven by the same motivation and the same, you know, impetus that an animal would. I think I went a little bit on a tangent of the agui, the hungry ghosts and the likes, and a person of insatiable appetites for love and for admiration, and sometimes for acceptance, and sometimes for the appetite and the hunger for being understood and being known or being unknown. It goes in every which direction you can imagine. If the appetite for the thing is insatiable, it is imprisoning.

Speaker 2: 12:25

It's almost like a Guns N' Roses album. It's an appetite for destruction. It's an appetite for destruction's an appetite for it's a bottomless hole. I think the if you highlight a person who is under the grips of addiction, it's a good example of this insatiable appetite, because there's a, there's a saying when it comes to substances, if you're addicted to them, one is too much and one million, whatever number one googleplex, you can add the biggest number you know to that is never enough oh so the zen thing, and there's this hunger, this hunger, insatiable hunger and a driving force where a person at the point of addiction, whatever their values are.

Speaker 2: 13:03

At that very moment, when the person's brain uh gets into this state of insatiable hunger, it will dismiss even the basic core necessities of life. It will override even your need for food your need for love, whatever relationships you value At the moment, when your brain is emotionally hijacked by this insatiable driving force to get the fix of the drug, it will dismiss the value, destroy all those things that you, at one point, when you're sober, value and admire and need for your being.

Speaker 1: 13:48

It will override your morals. All of that gets pushed to the wayside.

Speaker 2: 13:51

So this is a. I think this is a good example of a hungry ghost.

Speaker 1: 13:56

It's a big mouth. Yeah, it's a big mouth that eats and devours, and I know of people who they would devour the life-saving of their mother.

Speaker 2: 14:07

Sure.

Speaker 1: 14:09

I had a friend who I went with. I went to high school, I think. Yes, I went to high school with him and he had a friend in turn who was, you know, addicted to drugs. And this fella tells me this story. He says we were in my mother's house or wherever they were, so they're in a house. No, he was in that guy's house. And so this guy, they're in the house and they're whirling and devouring monsters rearing its head. And this kid has this brilliant idea because they have no money, you know. And he goes all right, I got another idea, wait. And I mean there's. It's comical, grotesque, it's horrible, it's all things simultaneously.

Speaker 1: 15:12

This guy walks into a closet in his house and his friend, who's sitting at the table, hears noises punching and things breaking. And what's going on? A few minutes later, the guy comes out of the closet covered in sheetrock dust. He went into his closet, punched through the sheetrock walls, my goodness Went into the adjacent apartment and robbed and stole their money, whatever it is, and came out you know, sheetrock chips and dust. I got money, let's go. So you know the one thing and this is certainly not anything to joke about, but there is a perseverance like any other.

Speaker 2: 16:13

There, if you channel that mentality.

Speaker 1: 16:15

If you channel that mentality of you know to other lives, endeavors, nothing is unaccomplishable. I mean, you know partially genius of an idea, right, it's just right. There, it's just's just. You know you walk into a door. You may no door, you make a door, you know. So it's partially an idea. You know a genius idea in a sense, but obviously at the same time it's it's, it's. The devouring monster has devoured any ethics, any morals, any, any concept of future consequence and repercussions. None of it comes into the mind when that monster rears its head.

Speaker 1: 17:00

And so we could say that one person can be a human being, but then also kind of a Venn diagram thing right that they could overlap, and some people have it for you know, we could say, for more time in their lives and some have it for a shorter period of their lives.

Speaker 1: 17:21

So there is that, on the other hand, if we really kind of filter out this idea what it is to be a human being and what it is to be a person, because one could draw that distinction we are human beings, beings, right, a dog is a being, an animal being, and we, you know, because we have certain capacities, etc. But we are an animal, obviously and clearly an animal, right. So that's the thing, right, we are, which one then is like okay, are we in the animal realm? We, we are, which one. Then then it's like okay, what are we? Are we in the animal realm or are we in a human realm? Right, and so these, these distinctions aren't as clear as we would like them, and they're not as neat as we would like them to be, and and, and we must be very cautious in terms of, uh, subscribing to these kind of clearly defined boundaries, because things aren't, and so what we get?

Speaker 1: 18:34

then, is this Venn diagram thing, when we can overlap and, like I said, for the entirety of our lives we are sort of one foot in the human realm, one foot in an animal realm. But if we have the, this is on a physical level. We cannot escape being an animal. We are, but we're also human, sure. So, and then we have, you know, the body of research when it comes to that large incarnation and reincarnation. I mean, you have what's his name? Yeah, there's a book by uh dr ian stevenson and dr ian stevenson.

Speaker 2: 19:17

He is a trained medical physician and he dedicated his life to research of cases that involved reincarnation.

Speaker 2: 19:27

Thousands yeah thousands and it's not anecdotal because he actually he worked out of the University of Virginia and he used a rigorous scientific method to justify the points and corroborate the points that were being made by the cases that he was studying.

Speaker 2: 19:45

So it says here, just to give a little brief summary of the book there's a book that he wrote where reincarnation and biology intersect and it says children who claim to remember a previous life have been found in many parts of the world, particularly in the Buddhist and Hindu countries of South Asia, among the Shiite peoples of Lebanon and Turkey, the tribes of West Africa and the American Northwest. Stevenson has collected over 2,600 reported cases of past life memories, of which 65 detailed reports have been published. Specific information from the children's memories have been collected and matched with the data of their former identity, family, residence and manner of death. Birthmarks or other physiological manifestations have been found to relate to experiences of the remembered past life, particularly violent death. Writing as a specialist in psychiatry and as a world-renowned scientific investigator of reported paranormal events, stevenson asked us to suspend our Western tendencies to disbelieve in reincarnation and consider the reality of the burgeoning record of cases now available and consider the reality of the burgeoning record of cases now available.

Speaker 1: 20:51

Yeah, it's interesting. There are interesting points there because for one, children and I've mentioned we've had a member of the Sangha whose child was sort of that typical situation in which Dr Stevenson talks about. From what I recall, I think it wasn't very well known and very broadly circulated. Because he did write and he wrote largely, I think, for the scientific community and very kind of technical in that, and that wasn't a as interesting maybe to the general public. So he published a lot of his, his findings, in the scientific journals and, and the other interesting part is, you know, the children in the countries in which, and and he, he, he realizes that right, he acknowledges the danger of a child brought up in a culture, brought up in a religion, brought up in a belief system where reincarnation is the thing, and so he understands that you know, children are impressionable.

Speaker 1: 22:04

So if they hear, if they know of reincarnationation and a kid wants to feel special, says I am reincarnation of you know. And the joke then is because we have these, what is it? The past life regression?

Speaker 2: 22:19

There is a form of hypnosis that is called past life regression.

Speaker 1: 22:25

And the joke is that everybody in those stories, everybody is a Napoleon, and everybody in those stories, everybody is a Napoleon and everybody is a famous nobody is a farmer. You know in the south, you know, but it's so. He in his Stevenson, that is, in his research. I think he sifts and understands that and has ways to make sure that that is not the case so there are a few anecdotal stories that I think are interested in.

Speaker 2: 22:54

Maybe I'll highlight just a few here for our audience. One that is making its rounds through social media is about a uh someone, a child, who I think around the age of seven or started to tell his parents that he was murdered.

Speaker 1: 23:12

That's late too, and then he.

Speaker 2: 23:15

You know parents kept hearing this time and time again and so it did pique their curiosity. So they actually investigated it and the child was able to, with great detail, identify the place of his burial. And it just so happened that he was murdered by his neighbor and the parents went there with the police. They dug the exact spot where the child delineated where he was buried and they did find his bones and they did find evidence of the neighbor having to do with the murder and the person was arrested.

Speaker 1: 23:46

There's a movie. Now, as you're saying this, there's a movie with, with an actor. There's a movie. I think it's like it's some young kid. It is is, be friends, a grown woman and claims to be her husband or something.

Speaker 2: 24:06

I think it was called made in heaven, made in heaven.

Speaker 1: 24:11

I don't know it's a there's, it's that stuff is out there. So there's this overlap, that. And this is where we kind of wanted to do the second part, because we have the physical and that great cycle of reincarnation you're a human, you're an animal, realm, etc. Etc. The physicality of it.

Speaker 1: 24:31

But then we have what is frequently dismissed or not understood as reincarnation is the repetitive kind of karmic circle, no-transcript, and this isn't to say it's like look at you acting like an animal, look at you, you know no-transcript, such terrible powers, shintongnyok superpowers, not superpowers we have, but you know, ability to know the minds of others, ability to blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1: 26:06

You know that we have five main things, but this is a pursuit. Why? So that we can better serve the other person, so that we can better serve people in general, to know where the person is and which realm they are in this moment. We can then match appropriately the antidote to their suffering, the medicine to their aches and pains and ills. And that is to say that it would appear that, well, if a person is suffering from, you know, from emotional turmoil, if they're anxious, right, and it would appear that the same well, it's anxiety. So give them anxiety medicine in a sense, and not necessarily chemically, but in this case we're talking about advice and whatever. But that's not the case necessarily, because an animal can live in a state of anxiety.

Speaker 1: 27:06

Typically they A human being can live in a state of anxiety. An agri can be in a state of anxiety, right, typically they. Yeah. A human being can live in a state of anxiety. An agi can be in a state of anxiety. Hell realm could be the state of anxiety non-stop.

Speaker 1: 27:19

So so what is the matching thing? It's it's like a physician who takes your, your medical history to say what medicine, I mean you will penicillin work, and if you're allergic to it, you can't be given that. And so certain states of reincarnation, certain states, are more, certain medicines are more appropriate for certain states. You know that being and now we're speaking psychologically and I'm not going into the spiritual element right, but that being will not be helped, right, by the same advice that a being of another realm can be helped, you know. So the medicine must match the one who suffers. And if they suffer within a realm of existence, okay, let's say, for example, there are heaven realms which are then characterized, which are then characterized where people are not likely to follow advice and follow the teachings of those heavenly beings. Why? Because they have ego, sort, you know, sort of, you know, arrogance.

Speaker 2: 28:52

Right. That connects to the story that I said last week about Joseph Campbell and Indra, king of the gods. Right, he built this great palace. He felt high and mighty and then a monk without clothes came in and he was just coughing him because it's like you're entering my palace looking like this, right, yeah, there's this arrogance there.

Speaker 1: 29:10

So, yeah, so abundance on one hand right, and then somebody else could, and another realm can have an abundance of something also, and and then the the medicine is going to be different depending on those realms of existence, and so what we call then challa to challa reincarnation, that is to say moment to moment reincarnation. And if one had seen the tenghua, the painting that usually is on the Shinjung altar, the Dharma Guardian's altars, I mean, you see the faces and the facial expressions of those beings.

Speaker 1: 29:50

And you know, we can say, on one dimension of this thing, those are the faces, the multi-faceted expression of who we are as a human being innocence. And then so we transmigrate, transmigrate, transmigrate these various realms. There's a 11-phase bodhisattva. Anyway, the point being is that every moment is subject to change. I mean, that is the characteristic mode of operation. All is in constant flux, everything is in a state of change and impermanence.

Speaker 1: 30:40

To imagine ourselves to be locked in such a plastic kind of format you know, we're not Barbie doll, we're not a canned kind of plastic. And you know, you got semi-mobility in your shoulder joint and that's all you get right, the pliability and and the and this is, you know, on one hand, such a fascinating thing as a human being that we can, we are boundless, in a sense, and and and it's a blessing and a curse simultaneously. Because we are boundless, we can do anything, but also, because we are boundless, we are the miserable in the boundlessness of it. Because if no control, if no training of control, if no state of wakefulness is available to the person, one will never, ever know If you're not conscious, if you're not awake within yourself as you go through your day to day. It's a big thing, but in the least one needs to start training somewhere, to sort of put this thing because it could be an academic exercise.

Speaker 1: 31:53

Well, you know, these are the realms of existence and this is how they are characterized, and you could spend years studying this thing, receiving anything meaningful out of your study, then this is where Zen frowning upon academic pursuit of enlightenment sits. So if you work.

Speaker 2: 32:20

I think you're referring to people that regurgitate words. Well, versus suheng, that we always go back to actually delving into the words and doing the work. You know, if you talk about Omani Padme Hum in the charlatan, charlatan, moment to moment, reincarnation, can you catch it? Did you catch it?

Speaker 2: 32:41

If you're not paying attention, it's a lightning flash. Most people wake up mid-movie without any awareness. It's almost like people that become blackout drunks and they engage in reckless behavior. You know, I was drunk, throwing up and then cleaning the floor, and with the same rag that I cleaned the floor I was cleaning my face of the throw up. And then you just wake up in a pool of vomit and someone then the next day shows you a video and you're like look what you did. And you're like I have no idea, right, you're just blackout drunk. Right, you, you were physically there, but you didn't catch it right, it's too late. Or you punched a hole in the wall because you were angry, and what did you just go through?

Speaker 2: 33:24

Things don't happen without a process. So yeah, like you're referring, the Suheng piece is to be wakeful in the moment-to-moment changes of your mood, your thoughts. What state have you been in? And this isn't that complicated. Again, you can go spiritual and zen gives you access to a lot of depth but just reflect on how you feel moment to moment and you'll see moods change, just like the weather I would say you're happy maybe that's your heaven, but you're not constantly in a state of happiness, because day-to-day life isn't the same.

Speaker 2: 34:02

That changes too right. So you will encounter something that will challenge you, you will encounter something that's a stressor, and then how do you react to that? Then, if you're complaining because someone took your parking spot or someone took the last cookie box and they beat you to it, and now you're mother effing them and cursing them out, well then stop at that moment and think well, if I was in a state of happiness, that was my heaven. Well, where did I reincarnate to? At that very instant, you were in heaven. You were in heaven. And now what? You were plunged into a mawan. You're angry and you're upset and you wanna tackle a poor old lady cause she beat you to the cookies, right?

Speaker 1: 34:46

You know, as you said, as you spoke of the cookie, I had a flash of this meme that I saw of the office pizza party.

Speaker 2: 34:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:00

And I wanna say it was COVID time. It must have been Well, but it was this idea. And it said you know, there was an office party and one person took the last slice, I think it was, or two. How did it go? Something to the effect of there were two people and each one of them took the last slice. One did it. See, the idea was one did it because there wasn't enough for everybody and the other one Because there wasn't enough.

Speaker 2: 35:42

And the other one what? Because it wasn't enough, and the other one what? Because they wanted too much.

Speaker 1: 35:47

That's the thing. No, because the idea was like shortage, right, like when we had shortage and that During COVID yes, that magical. I still don't understand the toilet paper thing oh God, I have a story for that, but so that's the thing, right. So the idea was that some people, because there was a shortage, took less. That's the point. And some people because there was a shortage. They took more. Right, you know what I mean. So like yeah, one is thinking there's not enough, there's a shortage. Let me leave some for others.

Speaker 1: 36:25

And the other person there's a shortage, me, me me.

Speaker 2: 36:26

I want it all for me. Yes, there's a shortage.

Speaker 1: 36:29

Because there's a shortage. What am I gonna do? What are you gonna do? Right, there are other, more important things than voiding bowels is what you could do, yeah really really fast, yeah, really fast.

Speaker 2: 36:39

My so my mother-in-law, in the time of the pandemic, came from cuba, and cuba is very famous, for there's a joke they say where the smartest butts in the world lie, and that's in cuba, because they wipe their behinds with newspapers. And so, you know, due to the, for economic reasons, there's that shortage, and then they all look to the united states, the first world, as being the place of abundance, and and so she comes in a pandemic and everyone's mocking Cuba for their shortage.

Speaker 2: 37:06

And here she is thinking she's in the land where the streets are paved with gold and I remember going to Costco and we're there, we're getting there and we're like we're gonna just grab a few, and then, sorry sir, we ran out. I was like, oh, so embarrassed, when can I hide right now?

Speaker 1: 37:24

Talk about reincarnation. So she went from a place where you wipe and then back to another place where wiping apparently is the preoccupation of your general mindset.

Speaker 1: 37:37

So this idea of moment-to-moment reincarnation, right Moment-to-moment, is a hard place to start. We have to acknowledge that. So I propose, or I would suggest, if you go to work, for one understanding I am at home, this is one realm of existence. I go to work, it is another realm of existence. And we automatically do so, right? You, I mean you, behave differently at work than you do at home. You behave differently with your spouse. Then you behave different.

Speaker 1: 38:10

You love your children differently than a lot of your wife or your husband. You love your husband and children are different than you love you, your parents, etc. Etc. So love across the board, but what kind and for whom? And in that same way, considering these various aspects of our day-to-day living as different realms of existence, then requiring of us different realms of different ways of behavior that are appropriate for said realm in which one exists.

Speaker 1: 38:44

And so one mustn't come from work working as a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, set foot in their house and forget that they now have reincarnated into the different realm of existence Because your spouse and your children aren't your employees.

Speaker 1: 39:01

But if you've, if you're, if you've been working and dealing with employees and subordinates, you know your whole entire day and you come home and you haven't realized you've reincarnated into different state, different realm of existence. You're then likely and subject to treat your spouse and your children and your family members as your workers and subordinates and whatever, and you will then magically turn that realm into yet another realm, because you will turn it into a war zone or hell realm. And so the easy and we start with the easy and big ones, right, you go into a supermarket, my, the comfort that you have at home, the uh, um, what's the word? I don't have a word. Make a genome. Yeah, accommodations, let's call it that. Sure you, you go into the accommodations that are made by your family members in your home. You cannot expect, you cannot take that. Go to the supermarket and expect the supermarket to provide you with the same accommodations that are provided by your family members.

Speaker 2: 40:35

They can't roll out the red carpet for you. Well, they're not going to serve at the feet of the guru, and that's the thing.

Speaker 1: 40:42

That's the thing. That's yet another realm.

Speaker 2: 40:44

That expectation will create a major clash if you go out there with that kind of expectation.

Speaker 1: 40:49

And that word is appropriate, but it escapes me Ka, you know, when somebody bends and adjusts to your needs and makes con Concedes concessions, concessions, that's it, concessions the concessions that you're, you're that are made for you by people closer into your lives.

Speaker 1: 41:12

You cannot now go into a larger world and say, make concessions for me because, just because, why you're in a different realm of existence, you have to understand where you are. You know and and that's kind of that idea of of where, which realm of existence I am in, and we this is the craziest thing because we do it automatically, right? You? You speak differently to your, to your parents, than you speak to your children. You wouldn't speak to your children the way you speak to your parents and vice versa, because you are there in a different realm of existence. So in the least, one ought to be awake enough to know if they've crossed those major and clearly defined borders of the realms in which one is currently existing.

Speaker 1: 42:06

Then, next level level up level up, level up or level down.

Speaker 1: 42:14

However you look at it the next level of awareness of one's own realm of existence. And this principle of reincarnation is one's emotional reincarnation. And you sort of hinted at that, right, you, you can be elated and you could be joyous, and something happens and all of a sudden, your, your, your joy has dissipated completely and been replaced by fury. Let's say that without knowing that, without realizing that, without thinking ah, I have now just reincarnated into another thing.

Speaker 1: 42:51

What we do largely is and this has been a thing because one could be then accused of invalidating an emotional state, and this is not what we're saying. We're not saying your emotions are, you know, but we're saying be awake to it, be awake to it. And again, if you are then upset about something, know that within the realm of anger operates on a different set of principles than the realm of, because then what we get is this strange overlap of abusive relationships, right when these lines of cajoling and then manipulation are blurred, you know, manipulated by harshness or manipulated by love. You know, love bombing to soften you up, just to then bruise you up, right when we are unaware of these realms, then these spillovers happen and what we are then subject and in danger of is psychological.

Speaker 2: 44:06

Yeah, for one manipulation also, and everyone's, I think every relationship influencers.

Speaker 1: 44:12

Favorite word gaslighting, gaslighting right, all those things, and so that's that's the one thing, right it's. It's then the realm of what emotional realm am I in? Am I acting? Am I in a heavenly mode or mood of realm? Am I in hellish realms of existence, plunged into, you know, torment and suffering, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 44:35

And knowing that, it kind of gives you a kind of a step back, it creates a little bit of space to know I have entered into a space, into a way of being which is different than to say I am Right, I am angry, right, if you are angry, that's it Game over, you cannot be anything else.

Speaker 1: 45:01

Then, right, yeah, because the truth is I, I am angry now, I am happy, now I am this, but the I am is is, you know, it's a language thing, but what it's almost suggests is I am and that's all that I am. And it leaves out of a possibility of I could be, I am angry, right, but I could be less angry, or I could be, not be angry, or I could. There's an opportunity there and a choice and a chance. But if we, so you know completely are plunged into realm of existence, we are so entirely engulfed that we, you know, hook, line and sinker. It's like you go to another country and there's a different set of laws that you abide by and different currency and different language, and you're sold completely. You know it's very, you're engulfed entirely by it and so, understanding that I am in this realm not that I am it?

Speaker 2: 46:03

I think maybe they should look at it as like a traveler.

Speaker 1: 46:07

You're a visitor. This is traveling.

Speaker 2: 46:08

You're a visitor, you're a guest. Because this concept of Omani Padme Humen, the fact that you can change and transform through the different states of being, or realms as you call it, that when I hear that, that gives me a sense of hope and a sense of freedom. Because, like you said, if I am angry and that's all that I am, then you've collapsed your whole nature and your whole being into that thing. Then you can be no, nothing else it's a poverty.

Speaker 1: 46:36

It's a poverty of no option and no possibility and nothing else exists. It is that is real poverty. Yes, it is, that's a, that's a topic sometimes people don't like.

Speaker 2: 46:48

If sometimes this idea of taking ownership and try to understand the causes that led a person to this state can get a person down and depressed, because it's like people then wrestle with this idea of like, oh then it's my fault. And I just want you to pause for a moment and pause that judgment for a moment and see it in this manner that if a person had control over the situation where it led to this negative consequence, you can add fault to it or not, but if that is the if your actions, if you had control over your actions that have consequences or outcomes, that same thing that let that same power that led you to this negative situation, you can use that same power to get you out of that.

Speaker 1: 47:36

Because then you can dig yourself, if you dug yourself into a hole, then you can climb, because then you can dig yourself.

Speaker 2: 47:41

If you dug yourself into a hole then you can climb out of that hole and then use that same principle that I can apply good seeds right now, I can enact good causes and then I can transform into the heavenly realm. That, to me, is liberating.

Speaker 1: 47:57

And then what we get is, when you begin to practice like this within yourself, when you begin to suheng like this, you begin to recognize what are the rules and regulations, what are the laws governing each realm of existence, and here's why that's important If you're going to have a conversation with your spouse or spouse because close, that when we say spouse simply means someone close to you and when we can understand which realm the other person is in and which realm I am in, because this is, this is the. There's the saying. Why do people that are angry yell at one another? Oh, yes, Right, you could be two inches from one another. Why do they yell at? Why do they yell and scream at one another? It's because, even though physically they're so close, there's this great crevasse.

Speaker 2: 48:54

Parts of some fun.

Speaker 1: 48:56

Yeah, they're so far apart. Actually, that's why they're yelling across this great divide, you know, because they're yelling across this, across this great divide. You know because they're not being heard. And and if we can understand where the other person is, what realm they are currently in and what realm I am currently in, right, then we can have a conversation, that of the same language. I mean, you know it's, it's. If I know you are speaking Spanish, I'm not going to speak to you in French because you don't understand French, so then I adjust accordingly to speak to where that person is, what realm of existence they're currently in. You know, if someone is sad, there is a proper way to help them, kind of come out of that. If that's the goal, yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:50

There's a common ground, a common language, a body language, yes, a facial expression, a tone, word choice. If it's in such contradiction, you have to take that into account, right?

Speaker 1: 49:59

If it's in such contradiction to their state, their current state. They won't accept it, they won't hear it. They won't hear it. It's like a different language.

Speaker 2: 50:06

This is why Falls on deaf ears, as they say.

Speaker 1: 50:08

Right. This is why Falls on deaf ears is absolutely true. If the two people are in such different realms of existence, the conversation cannot be had. And this is again yet another layer of it. Because, well, you're a person, I'm a person, you're human beings. So we ought to be able to come to some consensus, come to something.

Speaker 1: 50:33

But no, the physical me is in the realm of a human being. The psychological me is in realm, still hasn't checked out of the realm of being human being. The psychological me is in realm, still hasn't checked out of the realm of being betrayed by my best friend, something or other, and there's a kind of disjointedness about oneself and there isn't an alignment and these various selves are not superimposed onto one another to make one coherent self. It's a fragmented and splintered and confused state of being, internally, externally whatever. And so, if we have no idea where we are, an attempt to have a conversation is going to be an attempt at me speaking from my realm, in the language in which I am speaking, dealing with the currency that I am dealing with, and and suggesting that you drive on the left side of the street while you're speaking a different language and different currency, and and by currency again, right, what is what you consider worth? Right? You have a one person who can have a conversation with another person and say, you know, I have this great idea X, y and Z and I would help people do something. And the other person says, well, how much money is that going to make? Well, that's it. Now you're talking about what currencies? So what realm of existence you are in is going to deal with the different currency, right? So the materialistic setting is going to belong to one kind of a realm and the humanistic setting is going to belong in another kind of realm. And unless you understand that, the conversation is going to be bizarre. It's going to be comical because it seems like we're talking about the same thing, but we're not, because we're dealing with different currencies.

Speaker 1: 52:30

And so this idea of reincarnation is just when we kaput out of this life, where do we ha-ha into another, isn't the only way to think about it. Not only is it not the only way to think about it, not only is it not the only way to think about it, it's so far away, right? So far away. And yet here I am, in this very moment, in this thing. What's going on here now is the question. I ought to be awake enough.

Speaker 1: 53:02

As a last point I know we're kind of past the beep, but as a last point, when we take up only the idea of reincarnation as the great cyclical thing, when we get there as the great cyclical thing, we, when we get there to the doors of death or to the doors of leaving this life and moving on, and we have never practiced any state of wakefulness, we're going to just be as shocked and inept and unequipped. What if language of heaven? We get there and we realize, oh, this is a very different language. I've never experienced this different language. I've never experienced this because here right now, I've never dealt, I've never and I've never been conscious enough when I have entered the language, when I have entered the realm of heaven, here, I've made no notes, I've made no conscious effort to learn what that feels like. So I'm going to arrive in heaven. Wouldn't that then make heaven hell?

Speaker 2: 54:21

Right. Not only that If at that moment you never practiced heavenly thoughts or heavenly ways of being, how can you expect to enter through that door? It's like no different than if you didn't study for a test or if you never practiced a skill, and then now you're live on stage to do gymnastics, backflips and so forth and so on, and you never practiced that within your lifetime. So if you're looking for heaven, like you said, don't look too far away. Practice heavenly thoughts, heavenly feelings and heavenly ways of being in the here and now.

Speaker 2: 54:59

You know a good way to express heaven's language. How much of this do you do, right? So practice smiling. Also, practice being aware, and because the things in your life that you really, really hate, if you never train your mind to detach yourself from them or for those things not to have power over your being, you can't do that at the end of your life when your mental states and your physical states are weak. So in the day-to-day life, you have to implement these things and put them into practice.

Speaker 2: 55:33

A very simple thing that we typically experience is, at the end of the workday, we're tired, we're fatigued and many of us, we carry with us home all the baggage from work. It's almost like our hair is on fire. I don't have hair, but you need to carry with you a little water bucket. So on your way home, you have to unwind and put the fire out, Because when you walk into your home, practice that being your heaven. So when you put the key in the door, as you turn that key, let that become an automatic switch in your mind where you're going to whatever's behind you that you can't see any longer. Hit that alternate control delete button and let go and release whatever it is.

Speaker 2: 56:14

That's been a burden and what you've been carrying, so that you can enter into a different realm and you can speak heaven's language Because you, when you're angry, like you said, when you're angry, even heavenly things. If your spouse is in a happy state and you're angry and they say something kind to you, that feels like knives cutting you Right Because your heart and mind is not open to the heavenly.

Speaker 1: 56:42

You're in different realms. You're in a different realm. You're in different realms.

Speaker 2: 56:45

If you want to be happy, you have to make yourself ready to receive that happiness by you embodying that.

Speaker 1: 56:54

So, to summarize, if one will, we have the realms of reincarnation, we have the realms of knowing where you are, knowing where the other person is in this very moment, and adjust, right, enter into the realm. That is a communal realm in which we can deal with also knowing one's own state of being, what emotional state, how do I feel, etc. Etc. Knowing that makes them possible because one becomes more familiar with what those realms feel like firsthand. And so then we have some understanding. Ah, that person is in realm of, you know, insatiable hunger. They are currently a hungry ghost, and so you then deal with it on the level and, and and whatever necessitates or whatever the language is to communicate a concept, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 57:54

And then we have the larger ones. Like we said, if you're going home, if you're at home, you're in a home realm. If you go to work, if you haven't realized, and if you've gone to work and you make an attempt to run your business as you sort of as a family, and.

Speaker 1: 58:15

I know this is said so many times, but it's, forgive me, all of you, managerial positions, people, but this, we are one big happy family here, step up and whatever. But this, you know, we are one big happy family here. You know, step up and whatever. It's a language of family realm that is used in the kind of corporate realm and even though the language uses the, even though the corporate world then uses then the language of the home realm, it doesn't provide what a home realm would provide, right? So it's a kind of a manipulative thing, right, it's. Oh, you know, we're one family and you know that kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 58:58

So making, being aware and making switches from you know where, if you're in a marketplace or if you're in a supermarket, if you're, you know if you're driving, you're in a realm of that you were kind of another species on together. You know you're sitting in a metal box and it's. You know how many people curse out the other drivers. Oh yeah, because you're locked in it's. It's also akin to like the, the warriors. Right, you could make a comment in somebody's blog post. You know, just blatant, you know just destruction of character, and you know name calling and whatever Chances are that very same person. If they were standing shoulder to shoulder with that other person, they would never say the things that they say. Then that other person that would never say the things that they say, then you would never tell the other driver to do x, y and z and to do this and that to their wives and whatever. If you were, you know, in the same lane a line at the supermarket, right, you know in out of your metal container thing.

Speaker 1: 1:00:07

So understanding what realms we are and how we operate in those realms, and then, lastly, the big one, that the next life I want to be whatever. Whatever, I want to be Satriam. But this is the trick it's the small wakefulness and the small cyclical reincarnation, the chala, the moments to moment reincarnation. Then maybe you could say the day to day and the week to week and the month to month, and it sort of spirals out like that. If you are completely unaware on the small scale, scalability of this is out out of question. So you will never really successfully enter into a realm of reincarnation on the great scale in your next life. You will not enter the realm of your choosing if you haven't done the work on the small, micro scale. That's why you need Soshim Soshimsa.

Speaker 2: 1:01:08

It's no different than, let's say, if you're in school and you have a dissertation, or if you work for a design firm and you're going to do a big project. You don't just come up with a big project right, it's in the day-to-day grind, whether you're working by yourself or with teammates, where you're putting together. You know how do you write a dissertation. You know word by word, sentence, sentence, paragraph by paragraph. You don't just churn out 100 pages. It doesn't work that way. So it's the same thing the small creates the larger.

Speaker 1: 1:01:40

Keep that in mind Before we end up reincarnating right into the next week's episode.

Speaker 2: 1:01:46

One of the things that we promote that really helps us to become more self-aware and really helps us, like you're referring to earlier, to line up your psyche with your physical realm and your emotional realm is meditation and keto or prayer. So at socialorg, you can find out more about that.

Speaker 1: 1:02:04

Yep so that's it for this episode. Uh, what do you always say? Click subscribe.

Speaker 2: 1:02:12

Share yes, pass it on if you like what you heard thumbs, right and it, and then you learn something well share it.

Speaker 1: 1:02:19

I did. I did send out a message to our our group me um text message kind of inviting people to support on the podcast. We could do that on the podcast page is the best place it affords for like a monthly little subscriber thing and you know, to offset, like we said, offset some of the cost of production and things of that nature. If that's something that that you know that you would like to do have at it.

Speaker 1: 1:02:53

If you don't know exactly how to do it, let us know. It's pretty straightforward. We are on all these various platforms, right? We're on Spotify, we're on YouTube, we're on Apple Podcasts, we're on Buzzsprout is where we host it, so that's our thing, of course. So we also have a podcast website on the social sideorg, if you go to podcast, speaking of which, a new thing is a blog. That is the derivative. Derivative of what, uh, of what these podcasts are.

Speaker 2: 1:03:32

So it is largely AI, if you want to read more about these topics that we're talking about on your own personal time.

Speaker 1: 1:03:40

Yeah, and they're like three-minute reads per episode. It's you know the platform that we host that generates these. We have somebody who just reads through it to make sure there's no major faux pas. Um, like the transcripts sometimes say yeah, my name is usually the thing that's butchered. Oh yeah, yeah, if I say unsanim or nojangnim.

Speaker 2: 1:04:05

When I, when I generate captions, they never get that right. So hopefully.

Speaker 1: 1:04:10

hopefully we could get it kind of cleaned up a little bit to be coherent. But that's another thing and that's also on socialimstarorg. If you go to the blog page you'll see the majority of the previous episodes. Like I said, they're like a three-minute reads of kind of gist, I guess, of what was talked about. Yes, Until next time, take care of yourselves and each other. I'm Jörg.

Speaker 2: 1:04:41

Anselm. I'm Dr Ruben Lambert, from my heart to yours, and if you want to learn more about the things I speak about on wellness, you can follow me at Wisdom Spring Wellness on Instagram and YouTube. Thank you.