Speaker 1: 0:15

Welcome back to yet another episode of the World's Trezegne Podcast. I'm Jan Gansin here with Dr Ruben Lambert and we are back with episode, some kind of a number. We have recently introduced a lot of thing, a little bonus thing.

Speaker 1: 0:37

we're calling the bonus track mm-hmm the first one is out, so do check that out. It's, uh, I think, something to the tune of 15 minutes. Uh, there will be of varying lengths and topics, and um, anyway, we've briefly introduced it and the first bonus track episode. It's sometimes little things pop up, little nuggets of a thing that are worth rambling about, rambling about Mental rambles. Yeah, and some of it, you know, maybe a little poetry reading.

Speaker 2: 1:27

I feel like it's. It's those little piece of paper that have those little notes that you just stash and then you come across and you're like, wow, that was a great tidbit that I must share right, you your long lost, forgotten.

Speaker 1: 1:40

Yeah, insight that you re-encounter I have a collection of those yeah, and sony was uh um thing right again, right whatever desk, whatever desk that that we kind of settle in, whether here at you know, in our conference room, his, his, his chair and his seat, and or wherever we're at the school, or whatever you know he would have a some desk somewhere or a little spot and, uh, there are always a little bits and pieces of tissue, napkins and and little scraps of paper and things that he would scribble, scrabble things, and they would sit there for a while and something would pop back into his mind, or a memory or remembrance of something. Oh, I should, you know, this is a thing. And so I would go there and sit in his chair and look at the things and the things that were there for what I thought was too long, because then he would go and just throw it out simply good.

Speaker 1: 2:49

Surf did its purpose, but so I would take those and file them away, so collect yeah, I have a file of collect scraps.

Speaker 2: 3:00

Innocence, a scrap paper vacuum, sucking them up, collecting it.

Speaker 1: 3:06

Yeah, they're, you know they come out out of. You know the depths of the mind. Not necessarily some topic triggers it or what have you, or some realization, or yeah, so the bonus track, in a sense it's. That's the kind of idea, and then and little podcast tidbit form. So today's topic on the account that we didn't receive this week any suggestions or any questions from the audiences, we mentioned at some point in time that reincarnation would be a good thing to sort of touch upon, mm-hmm. And so we are here. We are Reincarnation.

Speaker 2: 4:07

I think I'll start with a little joke, because you said reincarnation and it just reminded me of a cool time period where you and I actually were making T-shirts. You remember Cafe Press.

Speaker 1: 4:19

Cafe Press right.

Speaker 2: 4:20

Right, right. And one of my favorite shirts was the one that you designed. It was a tombstone and on it it said I'll be back.

Speaker 1: 4:26

Right, right, right yes.

Speaker 2: 4:27

Yes, I thought that was a cool shirt.

Speaker 1: 4:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a good one. Summer camp projects yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's a. I haven't done it here. I think I guess we did at one point in time, at this location that is, but we did in the previous locations. We had a little. The lighter side, I think, was part of our billboard, our cork board in the lobby or where have you, and I would stick up little lighthearted things and one of the little cartoon drawings was of two soda cans and they're talking to one another and one says you know, I heard, if you're good, you could become siding.

Speaker 2: 5:18

Right.

Speaker 1: 5:19

For aluminum siding right.

Speaker 2: 5:21

Yeah, recycled.

Speaker 1: 5:22

And it was like recycling something or other. So that was the the idea you had another t-shirt.

Speaker 2: 5:28

It's a little outdated, but cell phones back in the day had limited amounts of minutes that you could use, right? And then this one company came up with well, whatever you don't use, you can roll it over to the next month and you came up with a shirt that said uh ryzen z-e-n.

Speaker 1: 5:44

And it said now your minutes roll over into your next life, like that was a magical break, yeah, that was good and remember those days it was like you had set a month of minutes and you're kind of nail biting, and so you know I can't call you until next week it was only three nights and weekends. Three minutes and then they included the nights and weekends, and then it was the rollover thing, and then they came out with the holy grail of unlimited.

Speaker 2: 6:09

Yeah, thank God, somebody reincarnated those plans and came up with something better.

Speaker 1: 6:14

And we gasped at the unlimited yeah, yeah. Evolution, change, change, reincarnation, recycling, recycling, evolution, change, reincarnation, recycling, progress. This is the thing, right? We must remember that these things aren't necessarily present solely in this kind of let's call it the religious realm in terms of reincarnation. The principle is, the Buddha didn't invent any of this thing. This is not a case of a creator who creates the world according to their own likes and dislikes and their own ideas. Their own likes and dislikes and their own ideas is a sort of journalist, observes the reality of things. Some of the reality is beyond what meets the eye and beyond the regular sensory perception, but nonetheless he observes the reality of things and simply reports on it. And if we consider the idea, if we sort of set aside for a moment this idea of this typical reincarnation as a, you know, you die and then you, you reincarnate it elsewhere, mm-hmm but if we look around, I mean it's we Friday again it's

Speaker 1: 7:53

everywhere. You know, we reincarnated again the whole week the signal of within. We're back to you know, friday again different week, different month, different year, different this, but yet there's a. There's so many differences and uniquenesses in it and yet at the same time there's a similarity, familiarity, sameness. All simultaneously same and different, different, yet same, and some things very different, some things not so much, some things not at all. And when we consider the conversation between the two aluminum cans, it's the same idea, right? Aluminum is aluminum. It changes form, changes shape. That's the thing. I'm no scientist, but there are some laws of thermodynamics or what have you that with this whole idea of energy is neither created nor destroyed, it just changes form. And there is change, not death but change to all things Some.

Speaker 1: 9:10

which coffee is it that is that passes through the intestinal tract?

Speaker 2: 9:16

of a cat, you know some kind of? Cat mangus kind of something or other, and it's this highly coveted you know coffee that's basically but there's the gorilla thing, tools that we had to see every year when we took the kids in summer camp to the Bronx Zoo that I miss video, right? They taught all the children that, yes, yes, eats the fruit, eats the fruit, and it's the seeds and then intestines, and then poop somewhere and it's, and it's like a tree is born.

Speaker 1: 9:44

Yeah, and it's, and it's like a A new tree is born. Yeah, and it's like a. It's fertilizer, natural fertilizer Right like you buy it in the supermarket with a pot and a little plant. It's all included. Yeah, food almost has a cycle of reincarnation.

Speaker 2: 9:58

Right, you eat food.

Speaker 1: 9:59

You process it, it does.

Speaker 2: 10:01

You poop it out and then it goes back into the we use for fertilizer manure, right? Sure, that went through the system of an animal, yeah. Yeah, it's a cyclical thing and it gives you back food.

Speaker 1: 10:14

Again, it's a cyclical thing and, like we said, there's a thing that remains and there's a thing that changes, mm-hmm, and and whether it's recycling, whether it's the, I don't know if we ever I signed it I had this, uh, when we had the kids programs, I had this um project that I stowed away, that I created.

Speaker 1: 10:43

There was was a Ziploc bag and the idea was there was a Ziploc bag and you make a miniature snowman and you put in a Ziploc bag and you paste that Ziploc bag to your windowpane and you see it kind of melt and become a thing and sort of on the account of that, this whole idea of the cycle of water and the kind of reincarnation in a sense there is. It's water, right, it's water or vapor or liquid or ice or snow, and and it's all water and it's in one form and another form, and when it's in the snowy form, you know, then you can make a snowman out of it and it has a shape and it has a kind of you know characteristics of the carrot nose and the and the call buttons and the. You know red scarf and a hat and tree branches, forearms and all of that and you look at it has like shape and form.

Speaker 2: 11:38

There's a silhouette right.

Speaker 1: 11:39

And then, yeah, there's a silhouette. And then you look at it and initially you know instantly, we know ah a snowman. But then you see a puddle of and you look at it and initially you know instantly, we know ah a snowman. But then you see a puddle of water and you don't think, ah a snowman, right, but it's….

Speaker 2: 11:51

Everything that made up that snowman… Is there. Is there too.

Speaker 1: 11:57

Yeah, so this waterness of water and the essence, the idea of the essence and the expression of it and the manifestation of it.

Speaker 2: 12:05

Wait. And then we have what Arun Sanam taught us, the story that Nodjang Nam told him about water and what you're drinking it's dinosaur pee Dinosaur urine yes. You're drinking dinosaur urine, right yeah?

Speaker 1: 12:21

Yeah, it is. You know. So the Buddha, in a kind of journalistic fashion, reports on what's going on and you have to think about it. And then there are the things you know that we pass from one existence and then reincarnate into another. There was, I don't know if you remember, when we were getting our degrees in Buddhist studies. There was a whole thing, and I don't recall what the particulars of it were, but that the term reincarnation was.

Speaker 2: 13:01

I was thinking about that this morning but, I, couldn't remember the second word.

Speaker 1: 13:09

Neither can I. They were hung up on it. It's not reincarnation, I remember I just I was thinking about that this morning. Yeah, I couldn't remember the second word.

Speaker 2: 13:12

Well, they, neither can I. There was something hung up on it. It's not reincarnation. It's not reincarnation, it's it's reanimation or something you can name it whatever you want.

Speaker 1: 13:16

It is what it is and this is, and this is the, the kind of academic intellectualization of it right. It's kind of academic intellectualization of it right. It's Rebirth. It was rebirth right Versus reincarnation.

Speaker 1: 13:28

Maybe that's what I was writing, something like that, on the premise of that you know the non-soul principle, and then that, if there isn't, but then what can reincarnate? So there's a you know, it was this whole convoluted tongue in cheek kind of thing I thought. But anyway, so that expression of reincarnation, let's say the big wheel. The big wheel because cyclical, in a sense, right. But so this great, great wheel, this carousel, if you will, we have within it the six realms of possibility of where one could reincarnate into Om Mani, padme Hum. Right, and for those of you listening who don't know, this is the six realms of reincarnation Three are considered higher realms, three are considered lower realms, so three are more favorable and three less favorable. And so what we have is we have the heavenly realm you know the usually everybody wants that one, everybody wants that.

Speaker 1: 14:50

Remember that song. And we're going somewhere and a song comes on the radio and there's a sort of blues thing and and the. The lyrics I remember were everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die, nobody's lining up to be first, and and you know, and it's, it's those. You know, these nuggets of of people say things and and and things are so profound they could come out of anywhere a child, whatever, whatever, we'll talk about it some other time. But there's certainly that when, the, when the speaks, you know, in between the words of the conscious mind. But yeah, so we have the heavenly realms and we're not going to dive into the details of the numbers, et cetera, et cetera, because they're, you know, within the Buddhist cosmology, if you want to call it that.

Speaker 2: 15:43

That could be another podcast, potentially right when we go into that.

Speaker 1: 15:47

And there isn't a single realm, heavenly realm, there are multitudes.

Speaker 2: 15:52

There are many rooms in my father's house Right.

Speaker 1: 15:55

And that's essentially that, right. If the universe is the father's house, then there are many rooms in it, and so, yeah, so we have the heavenly realm. Everybody is oogling, and so, yeah, so we have the heavenly realm, everybody is ogling. Then we have the Asura, and Asura are sort of divine, in a sense. They're, they're evolved right, but they have a very strong ego. They have a very strong ego.

Speaker 1: 16:22

They have a very strong ego, and they're argumentative and fighting, and you know, I, yeah, let's just go through them, we'll organize this perhaps somehow, maybe it'll come out organized in the end, but so yeah, so they're kind of evolved and essentially spiritually, and you know they're a divine being, if you will, or heavenly being, if you will, but they are in fact rather angry at things and fightful. And then we have the human realm, which is uh, which is this uh grand university set up.

Speaker 1: 17:15

I feel like it's like Penn station, all all flow into this one central. Yeah, we could say that it's. You know, it's a, it's a, it's a 50, 50 of of 50, kind of it's a, it's a equal distribution of joy and suffering right, these dualities and and things, and, and largely the idea is right, learn some, learn you some right. But it is also the world of greed and desire.

Speaker 2: 17:46

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:48

Want Jokke, jokke Right.

Speaker 2: 17:51

Because, if you think about it, everything that is alive must by definition consume something. Right, it must consume. Or another way that we put it is everything is pulling.

Speaker 1: 18:01

Everything's pulling.

Speaker 2: 18:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:03

Everything's vacuuming us here, and we don't necessarily by consume, we don't only mean food. No, obviously somebody's consuming this podcast, hopefully when we're done with it. Also, you know, if you went out to a fine restaurant and by fine doesn't necessarily mean expensive and you found something that was scrumptious and delicious, wouldn't you invite your other friends? Sure, wouldn't you say hey, listen, I found this wonderful I've consumed this delicious meal.

Speaker 1: 18:34

I think you'd like it. So consumption of food and consumption of the podcast too. Tell others, hey, if you like it, maybe others will like it, maybe they'll get something out of it. Spread the word, share, spread the word. Indeed. Yeah, everything's consuming our eyes and ears and nose and every sense is just vacuuming the world inside. Yeah, and unbalanced and unbridled. It is, then, the fundamental source of suffering.

Speaker 2: 19:15

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:17

And pain, disappointment, et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, but here we are human beings, learn you some. And then we have the animal realms. So you know, naturally Chuxeng, chuxeng, and may the animal lovers of the audience not get all worked up about it. But the animal realms are considered a sense lower than the human realms, their capacity and, and you know, we see the behaviors of animals so many now on social media. You know various species of animals.

Speaker 2: 20:05

Some you know dog helping a cat, cat helping a mouse and and those kind of you know cute things and and this isn't to say that animals are or something you know- well, I think if, if someone heard you lower and the first thing that popped into their mind means oh, that means now you can mistreat them, and that was a little Rorschach test where you projected that onto the situation. It's a biological fact that animals' ability to engage in complex cognitive thinking is less than humans.

Speaker 1: 20:45

It doesn't mean we have any, unless you're a crow or a pig or a dolphin.

Speaker 2: 20:48

there are things that they can do up to a certain age, but I don't see any animals inventing a rocket ship or a cell phone or anything like that, right? Or learning five different languages, you know, creating a flux capacitor to make a time machine or anything like that, right? They're just not doing that. So that's just a fact. You still have to, you know, live within the bounds of, let's say, respecting living beings. Sure, we don't abandon that just because someone knows less than you. Don't step all over them right, so we're not saying that.

Speaker 2: 21:19

We're just discussing the reality like a weatherman reporting it.

Speaker 1: 21:24

And I've recently, I think, perhaps a few Sundays ago, or maybe it was a meditation class, I forget. Now I spoke on the idea of life, what is life? And we do view everything through our own individual lens, right? So if it's not doing what I'm doing precisely exactly, if it's not mimicking me, if it's not what my ego says it, then it's not alive. Um, and the definition of what it means from the sort of enlightened perspective, what life means, what is a life, is a whole different thing.

Speaker 1: 22:12

St Francis of Assisi was famously fond of rocks and he would kind of say, don't kick them around and don't, you know, they are our brothers and you know, tend to them as one ought to things around us. So, yeah, we're absolutely not saying that lower and and and again, this is also not, uh, even even if you consider kind of, this is just an imagery. But you know, a demonic a thing, right, a demon. And usually we've been, we've been, we've been trained by the Hollywood to, you know, you cast it down and you smite it and you destroy it, then you kill it in this kind of violent, violent thing, um, the zen way is not so exactly.

Speaker 1: 23:10

Compassion for all, care for all. Uh, yeah, this, this, this is a whole other thing, but anyway, so yeah, but here we are. So we have the animal realms, and animals are limited in their certain capacities that they possess. And then we have Agi, the hungry ghost realm, and sort of is what it says. But we have to be cautious to classify hungry in that sort of natural way as hungry for breakfast. Oh, it's the grumpy ones that haven't had breakfast. You know, if you haven't had coffee, you're a hungry ghost because you're grumpy and you're you're hungry and so right, it's um hungry ghosts.

Speaker 1: 24:04

Are those who have been so to the bone, consumed by hunger? In other words, by insatiable hunger, in other words by greed uncontrolled?

Speaker 2: 24:18

greed.

Speaker 1: 24:19

And so hungry doesn't necessarily and only mean hungry for food. Hungry for love is hungry. Hungry for fame is hungry. Hungry for love is hungry. Hungry for fame is hungry. Hungry for money is hungry. Hungry for companionship, for emotional states. Hungry to be understood is hungry. Hungry not to be misunderstood or to be not understood, to be understood and not understood. Hunger for whatever Hungry, just insatiable hunger, right that nothing fills it and this bottomless pit of a thing and we know people can become so consumed, I mean what's that?

Speaker 2: 25:06

What's the metaphor for it? Right there, I think they have a long neck that looks like, let's say, like a straw, and then a very large.

Speaker 1: 25:12

I would say watch out with the use of the word metaphor well, just so people understand, conjure up an image of what you're describing a mouth of a amount of a, of a sort of crocodile or hippo, a throat the size of a needle and a belly the size of sort of cows. Not, cows have multiple stomachs, it's a different. But this huge distended belly of hunger and things.

Speaker 1: 25:39

But I prefer the imagery. I mean, this is one and they are. Well, we're going to get into something here now. There are agi, there are various, okay.

Speaker 2: 25:59

I just realized. Yeah, that's okay yeah.

Speaker 1: 26:02

What are you going to do? We didn't start the timer, so I'm going to have to make a beep at some point in time. So let's keep an eye on the time. I don't even know what time we started. This is going to be an experiment. I'd like to think, or I'd like to explain it to people, in a sense, of whether it's the Dharma guardians or the Xinzhung right.

Speaker 1: 26:30

And you know, you could say the Bodhisattvas, you could say the Buddhas, you could say whatever. Think of it in parallel terms to our reality that we are familiar with. We have animals in this world.

Speaker 1: 26:54

Some have long necks and are spotted, like the giraffes, you know, some are underwater, some are flying, some, you know, some see, some see, some have multiplied some don't have it some don't see, some don't have an x, I'm right right, so it's various species of beings, of which all we call kind of living beings, we could say, or animal realm, or insects, whatever the spiritual dimensions or the dimensions or the realms, the worlds, the places where these other beings live, we could think of it in the same thing. It's a parallel in a sense. So there are then various types or species of agui also. What does that mean? That they are satiated by different things, the way that in our world one animal eats one type of food or one type of fruit.

Speaker 1: 27:53

And it can't, you know it's not equipped to digest something else, for example, or get sick if it does, or what have you Agi? The hungry ghosts and their various species of them, them, have the same idea, right? So there are ones, and they, you know, there's some what we would consider gross and disgusting eating habits of agri. I mean, they are sad if we consider about it, if we consider it, you know, the question of their knowledge and understanding of their condition, that's a whole other thing. But there are ones that, in the least disgusting format, can eat food but food must be offered to them. Format, can eat food but food must be offered to them. So it's, there is a restriction and the restriction is that the food must be specifically offered to them. And again, this is, you know, when we think of it and we rifle through our life experience and then we say, well, I don't know, this kind of seems far-fetched. I mean, I remember clearly as a child, there were moments of moments, let's call them. There were moments of the absence and hunger on the account of the socioeconomic situation of Poland at the time, and a single parent household and all that, all those things you know, and you kind of as a kid, you, you almost, you know, like in the in the movies. You're kind of glued to the window pane of a of a you know bakery and you could nearly lick the glass at a steaming piece of food you know on the other side of it. So it's there, but you can't have it unless it's given to you or unless it's offered to you. And in that case you know how do you get it. You have money and you buy it, and that's how you get it right. And agui don't have money. So the money in a sense is the prayer and the offerings that are made by the living on behalf of the agi, the hungry ghosts, that kind of thing. And then that spectrum, you know, then progressively deteriorates. There are agi who can only satiate their hunger by the water that drips off the feet of a pious sort of person or usually it's presented as kind of monks but the water that drips off the feet of a, let's say, of a moral person, of a good person who has crossed a body of water. So if you walked across a creek and your feet are dripping water, those drips of water is the only thing that could satiate the hunger of a certain species of agi. Water is the only thing that could satiate the hunger of a certain species of agi. And then there are ones that pardon me graphic warning for the listeners that feed on vomit, but they eat the vomit, they vomit the vomit again because whatever. And then it's a cyclical thing.

Speaker 1: 31:21

So there's torment, and when we look at our lives here, when one gets caught up in an insatiable hunger I mean, consider addiction and drugs yeah Right, you know people the initial, you know use is, oh, that feels great. And then the use feels like, oh, that's all right, great. And then the use feels like, oh, that's all right, and then the use is that's, and then the use is I'm sick, so I must use. And then the uses you, you know, you use, and then you don't even have a chance to enjoy the use because you already have to start planning for when you're gonna, where you're gonna get your next fix, because the cyclic, so it progressively deteriorates into this cyclical thing. What's that guy? Schmeagle, schmeagle, schmeagle, I mean Schmeagle. I don't know the story of the history of it, and the movie buffs and the religious personnel of the set saga don't throw rocks at me, but I would say that Schmigel, schmigel, schmidl. Whatever Schmigel, I think it's Schmigel.

Speaker 1: 32:37

Anyway, that Schmigel was a person at one point in time, and I don't know if that's a story, but just this is my own thing a healthy, normal, size, normal looking the lord of the rings no the lord there, the lord rings, yeah, so in in my, in my version of the role in schmidl, is a person, a normal person like you and I, that then develops this uh, infatuation with this ring of his ring, right, right, my precious, his precious right, and and, and where, where I think every other word you know.

Speaker 1: 33:18

He's like how was your day, I was fine, whatever my precious, and just snaps back to that hit fixation. And the state in which Schmidl is presented in the movie is the result of that greed deteriorating and kind of contorting and deforming him into this creature that he now is, right, hairless and big, gouging eyes, because looking for the thing, and you know can, and kind of grotesque reduction of a human being to a creature of greed. That is an agi who, who's been reduced, yes, from a human form into this creature thing. Uh, betrayal is, is just norm, nothing higher than the holy god of greed and the holy god of ring, you know that kind of thing. And so we have those and we are then down to the lowest of the realms, which is the hell realms, the least favorable, of which there are a number Again it's not only one.

Speaker 1: 34:41

There are different strokes for different folks. Hot hells, cold hells, you name it, we got it. And so those are the realms and the premise is depending on the karmic burden, we create a magnetic pull. Again, this idea really is not that difficult to grasp If you consider habituation of thought and emotion and behavior. How is a woman subject to abuse finally free herself from said? And this is necessarily not only women, men are in abusive relationships as well, right? So how does a person then in an abusive relationship, having freed themselves of said abuser, go and find another relationship that is exactly the same personality that they are engaged in? They still have the scarring, the emotional scarring, sometimes the physical scarring and the abuse still kind of there. But then they go and seek out of the whole, availability of the whole, you know, availability of the various personality types, and how is it that they hone in?

Speaker 2: 36:16

Behavioral profile as the last abuser Right.

Speaker 1: 36:21

So it's as if they are possessed by their karmic proclivities and their tendencies. It sort of pulls them and they're kind of in the back seat of it, being just pulled into this relationship, yet again of the same kind. Not an easy task to unbind oneself. This is this thing, this karmic magnet that pulls the confirmation bias and these familiarity, and the devil known is better than the devil unknown, and all of those things that we have. And then what you're going to do is whether you like it or not Actually, it doesn't matter whether you like it or not. That's even the sadder thing there. You may like it or not like it, and I don't like it. And yet, whether you like it or not, it doesn't really matter. You are magnetically drawn and pulled. Unbeknownst to you, you will find yourself in the same place and then feel as if there's no way out and no escape, right.

Speaker 1: 37:50

And you have arrived there. No one really abducted you and drove you into a situation, into a relationship, but you find yourself in this relationship, pulled into it, pulled in magically, magically right, and it's sort of. This idea of how the hell did I end up here is completely outside of the thought pattern, whether it's some magical horse blinds that come, you know, veil the eyes and the person doesn't see the warning signs and whatever, whatever. But by and large there isn't sufficient wakefulness in the mind of what's happening here and now, what's happening to me as I'm being drawn, and so we get sucked in.

Speaker 1: 38:39

It's very easy to understand this dynamic of being drawn into a realm in this very life, and so we have the advantage of having the physical form, because it takes from me to get from here, from this room, to the next room, it takes some time. I have to drag, there's some heaviness to the body and there's air resistance. So maybe I have 1700 times ability to change my mind, to drag, there's some, you know, heaviness to the body and there's, you know, air resistance. So maybe I have 1700 times ability to change my mind. But if I was untethered from this physical form and I thought, ah, I want to be in the next room occurs to me immediately. I am there, right. So not even there's, not even the delay that affords me, you know, know.

Speaker 2: 39:23

Time to think, time to process, to rethink it, maybe change directions. Boom you're in.

Speaker 1: 39:29

And so these ideas are not as far-fetched as we sometimes think them to be.

Speaker 1: 39:40

If we just well, frankly, if we just think a little bit about it and if we consider our lives and the way that things are, they are, absolutely make sense because we see it in day-to-day life. And so this is the one element of this reincarnation, the grand wheel of reincarnation from one life to another, in a sense. By the way, it's worth mentioning and necessary to mention, just how uniquely fantastic, unimaginably so, despite the situation and the condition and whatever that human life is. I know this is sometimes met with some contention and say you know, well, there are people who suffer unimaginably in their life and we are by no means suggesting that that ought to be dismissed. But there are sufferings beyond the unimaginable sufferings, and they are so because they are unimaginable, because we have not, we've forgotten the experience we certainly have, chances are, we've been through the various realms and again and again, and we've forgotten this thing of those, because there's a reset button, in a sense, when we come into this world the trauma of the birth.

Speaker 2: 41:31

And so so an alternate control, delete happens and all the memories are gone.

Speaker 1: 41:35

Yeah, and then they are restored when we drop the physical form. Mm-hmm, Right, it's an aha moment and so, yes, and so we have this imagery and I don't recall if we mentioned it here on a podcast but this uniqueness of the human form and just how precious and unique I mean for one, we are a minority in this world. If you consider all the living beings, animals and birds and fish and creepy crawlies and all of this, we are just utter sheer sort of minority.

Speaker 2: 42:13

Yeah, we probably took like a 12 foot by 12 foot, cut out of the dirt underneath us and dug it all up and went straight down. There are more than the amount of living things down there, probably more than the population is concerned, more than the whole population of the earth. No population of the earth, no population of.

Speaker 1: 42:26

Earth.

Speaker 1: 42:27

Yeah, you know so, and you know.

Speaker 1: 42:32

This is not even getting into the nitty-gritty of what is life period.

Speaker 1: 42:37

But and so this imagery of a blind turtle oh yes, right Swimming in the vast ocean, on the surface of which there floats a plank, and in the plank there's a single hole. And so you have the turtle blind, you have the plank with a single hole in it on the surface of this great, great world ocean, and this turtle comes up for air every something, to the turn of like 1,000 years. It takes one nice deep breath it's probably learned that in one of our meditation classes and then dives again and then does not come up because it hasn't the need to come up for another thousand years. Now, if you consider I don't know, maybe there's some mathematicians in our listening group if you consider the ratio and you know, in the possibility and the chance for that turtle to come up for that single breath that happens every thousand years, and as it comes up, for it to stick its head through the single hole in that single plank of wood floating on the vastness of the ocean, that is how difficult it is to become a human.

Speaker 2: 44:01

I think Kyung Ho had the opposite example. Kyung Ho is one of the great Koreans and masters. He said imagine all the dirt in the world that represents human beings losing their fortune and losing the human form and then being able to become a human again would be the amount of dirt under a person's fingernail. So that little tiny bit compared to all the dirt in the whole wide world.

Speaker 1: 44:31

Yeah, yeah. So you are a unique and a fantastic thing, despite of what the circumstances of one's life are and, furthermore, furthermore, just how precious one is on account of that uniqueness is unspeakable. There's only one of you in this world, whoever you are, wherever you are, no one is like twins. We have twins in our sangha and, it's interesting, they're twins. Each individual person is a person of their own, uniquely shaped by their experiences, by their life. Whatever their beauty is their own, individual, own, individual, own. And so we have this great. Back to this great cyclical thing.

Speaker 2: 45:33

Yeah, I want to highlight an example that Wayne Dyer gave. He gave like a practical example, because then there's the great cycle of reincarnation. Right where you go, you know you lose this body, you lose this form, and then you gain another form, whether it's a form in one of the other realms or returning back here to earth. And there's some people out there I have to drop another joke, that's yours, so credit me on to them. There are some people who are listening to this right now and saying that's a bunch of hogwash. I just don't buy into that, and for those people, we'll have this discussion in our next lives about that.

Speaker 1: 46:08

Yes.

Speaker 2: 46:09

That's a classic of mine. You can sit with that If you don't subscribe to Notional Brain Connection don't worry about it, we'll talk about it in your next life We'll talk about it.

Speaker 2: 46:18

And so Wayne Dyer, he did a presentation on a stage and he had a picture of himself every 10 years. And then this is the point that he made. He said okay, well, you know it's hard for you to grasp losing this body, getting another body, but we did this within this lifetime. Here's my soul incarnated into this body. And he showed a picture of himself as a baby and that had a certain shape and form and certain cognitive abilities. And then, 10 years later, completely different, a whole brand new body. And then 10 years and 10 years and so forth and so forth. So one can say we've reincarnated into different bodies just within this lifetime.

Speaker 1: 47:03

I would go one step back further, still right, and we are within this lifetime. I would go one step back further, still right, and we are within this lifetime. An amphibious being. We were, yes, suspended in the mother's womb. Yep, swimming, we're kind of frog, we're swimming Frog thing.

Speaker 1: 47:24

Essentially yes we're kind of frog thing, essentially, yes, you know, and then we are born into this, uh, you know, air breathing, uh, being, and so so, in a very physical form, we, we, we are already two lives and two, two realms of existence within the single life, you know. And and then, like you said there, these, these stages of, of, of progressive evolution and change and evolution. It's a thing evolves over the course of various lengths of time and offspring evolves in one way to adapt and accommodate and etc. Etc. Etc. It's still a thing of the same, you know, its name may still be the same and and its characteristics are varying and so. So that's a reincarnation. Also, I think what we'll do is I will do this it feels in my bone marrow that we're probably an hour or close to it now, and we?

Speaker 1: 48:51

this is definitely a topic that we need to return back to well, that's, I think we'll do a part. Internal reincarnation right we didn't really so let's do, let's do that so I do want to leave with.

Speaker 2: 48:58

I do want to give one story that I do love, from one of my favorite presenters. His name is Joseph Campbell, and he gives this story in the Power of the Myth, and in this story he talks about Indra, king of the gods, remember that. And then he gives a story where Indra became king of the gods and then he created this heavenly palace with all of the goods right Golden toilet seats, all the food that you can desire, musicians in the court playing your favorite lullabies. And then one day this old monk walks into his court with ragged clothes and an umbrella it seemed that was like, I guess, broken in his hand. And as the door opened behind him him, there was a long list of ants, a long line of ants, I'm sorry, just coming into the court. And then andrew becomes angry no, I think it's a.

Speaker 2: 49:55

I think I think right, yeah, he's got hands, he's got a, he's got a hairy chest and he plucks yeah, he gets angry, I think indra gets angry.

Speaker 2: 50:04

He's like get out of here, old man, something like that. But then, and when the door opens I remember the in the there was a visualization, a long line of ants coming in. Anyway to the point my favorite point does, and then and then indra's getting very angry and upset, wants to kick out the old man and is upset that all these, he let all these ants inside of his majestic palace. And then this is the point that that always stuck with me and then the old wise man I think it was an old monk says you know what those are? Those were indras before you.

Speaker 1: 50:41

they get, they work through the ranks of spiritual accomplishment, they get to be the god of gods, and then they get a big head and grow an ego and blow it and back down to step zero.

Speaker 2: 50:55

Yeah, you could see that same cycle again within a lifetime. Here in this earth, right now, you could see people that grow in some resource and fame and money and power, and then there's this change that occurs and they no longer remember that they got there because of you. Know hard work one, but it's people. Money doesn't have wings. People bring you money right and then all of a sudden now you don't value people anymore, and then there could be the slippery slope right down to the bottom so let's do next podcast reincarnation, reincarnation, reincarnated, reincarnation reincarnated yes okay, so we'll stop here.

Speaker 1: 51:44

I mean, we haven't mentioned, maybe we'll mention next episode Stevenson, ian Stevenson and the various sources.

Speaker 2: 51:53

That's what I would think that type of stuff.

Speaker 1: 51:56

So, yeah, that's that. Thank you for tuning in. We will be reincarnating again in the same place. Well, a different place. Everything's already changed so drastically since I've sat down in this chair. We will be back next week with a part 2 of the reincarnation discussion and chit chat meanwhile with a part two of the reincarnation discussion and chit-chat Meanwhile.

Speaker 1: 52:30

Do, if you will send us questions, topic requests, comments. It's always lovely to hear back from you. See, if there's anything specific that struck a tune with you or that you know hopefully there's a big cartoon exclamation mark above your head or a question mark, even better yet and if there's something that is of interest to you, what would you like to hear us deform and mangle and talk about and and and and? Yeah, drop us a line. Uh, of course there's also opportunity and and we are grateful for that the financial support of the podcast. Um, that helps cover the, the cost of the hosting platform and the website. That's a run and, you know, maybe, if there's, when we get to a point where there's some leftover, we could start paying the bills for this equipment that we have here Spontaneously purchased.

Speaker 2: 53:46

Yes.

Speaker 1: 53:49

But yes, so until then, take care of yourselves and each other. I'm Milen Sinim.

Speaker 2: 53:55

From my heart to yours. I'm Dr Ruben Lambert. Please subscribe and like and if you like what you hear, pass it on to somebody else. Help us spread the word.